Worship Weblog

Brights Grove Book Group – Second Meeting

Posted by cicw

Wednesday, October 14th, 2009

Book Groups

We invited 34 book groups across the U.S. and Canada to meet and discuss The Church of All Ages and its implications for their worship, and to share their notes here.
Learn more

Is it really possible to have intergenerational worship?

Discussion began with reflections on chapter 3: worship and faith development.

Marie: The chapter gave interesting insights into the stages of faith.
Kay: Hard to slot people and ourselves into these stages.
Nancy: If we talked about our faith it might be easier.
Christine: Do all 11 year olds function at a mythic-literalistic stage?
Consequently, are all people who function at a mythic-literalistic stage 11 years old?
Joanne: It seems many people are in stage there and stay there because we
spend a lot of time asking: Who am I?
Nancy: Suffering is a great motivator to moving through the stages (death, loss,
etc).
Christine: This is a Christendom model, not reality. It presumes that faith is
largely about what you think (eg. p36: understand) but faith is more about trust, being willing to risk self to Jesus. The model presumes faith is something you choose, but in the scriptures faith is a conversion experience.
Susan: There seem to be cultural differences between UC/Canada in terms that
this model seems to assume that we all are church goers. More true in US than Canada.
Nancy: This is more a social science model. Aren’t there stages with conversion
as well?
Christine: We are always being converted.
Joanne: Stages are idealistic.
We then moved on to discussion about argument and accommodation and change.
Nancy: This process seems to leave no room for a potential option of “creation.” Susan: They present a both/and and an either/or but not the possibility for a
“more.”
Cindy: The terms “argument” and “accommodation” have negative connotations.
“Discussion” might be a better term. It’s better to make change together.
Nancy: Too many churches are satisfied with closing their doors in five years.
Christine: Their attitude is: as long as the church stays here when I’m here.
Marie: There’s nothing that we’re too tied to.
Christine: There’s a difference between a city churches and rural churches. Rural
churches change as their leaders change and their leaders change often.
Gloria: There’s a formality in the old churches.
Irvine: There’s a time to be serious, a time not to crack jokes. Quietness is
important.
Kay: It is as Jesus said: Let the little children come unto me.
We noted a difference between the writer’s assumed worship styles and many of ours. That makes a difference as to what “change” looks like.
Nancy: I came from a different tradition where we were in worship and went out
to Sunday School.
Kay: Children were in the service and Sunday School was held after
church.
Marie: I like the kids being in church at the beginning.
Christine: Sunday School was about educating. The children who attended did
not have parents in church. The churched families did not send their children to Sunday School. Worship was an intellectual exercise.
Gloria: Why are we talking about children being in worship for the whole time?
Maybe occasionally. Interactive worship would keep all involved.
Ruby: The children were always in worship.
Christine: The church is not the “body of Christ” without them. The church is less
than a body of Christ.
It was noted that in our churches the minister does either all, or a large majority, of the worship planning. Christine spoke of being in a church in Louisville, Kentucky where the minister has a team to plan worship and members of the team take different parts of the service. If this is intergenerational, then the two ordained ministers around the table felt they could not do it, it would be overwhelming.
Marie: In a small church all the people do all the jobs and creating a worship
team would just mean more work for the same people.
Susan: Certainly intergenerational worship is not taught at seminaries.
Gloria: What is the larger church (The United Church of Canada) doing about
helping in terms of resources for congregations?
Susan: Seminary education in the United Church does not generally address
intergenerational worship.
Gloria: Education at seminaries needs to change.
Kay: Our church isn’t relevant for youth. Our church doesn’t talk about faith.
Christine: What is the nature of the church that we don’t talk about faith any
more? We need to walk the talk. Youth want guidance and authenticity.
Cindy: Young adults live in a technically based world. We need to open up
opportunities for them to become involved.
Christine: There are more visual learners than before yet worship is primarily
oral. Need visual, tactile.
Marie: Hard to get commitment from young people. Hard for young people to join
in.
Gloria: People stick to their own friends and don’t get out and meet people.
Cindy: Church in Red Deer where parents went when they visited and no one
spoke to them.
Kay: Church in Toronto very friendly.
Irvine: Church in Sarnia where they assign six families to a new family.

Tags: Book Group - Brights Grove, Book Groups 2009, intergenerational