Worship Weblog

Sunnyside Book Group – second meeting

Posted by cicw

Friday, September 4th, 2009

Book Groups

We invited 30 book groups across the U.S. and Canada to meet and discuss The Church of All Ages and its implications for their worship, and to share their notes here.
Learn more

Mary opened the meeting by reading Psalm 71:14 – 18 and focused on verses 15, 16, 18. She shared the story of how a former student declared to his children (the next generation) God’s provisions in his life of Christian mentors.

Share ways that your congregation has been sensitive to the stages of faith development in all who worship there.

• Harold: I am impressed and moved when the GEMS share worship through movement of themselves and banners adding to our worship experience. I am also touched deeply by the Good Friday tradition we have of leaving the church in quiet and darkness. It helps us to drop our own stories for a night and reflect on God’s presence.
• Lou: appreciates when entire families lead worship services.
• Twyla: At Baptism how the pastor spoke to all generations of the family who were present: Grandparents, Parents, siblings, and children of the congregation.
• Phyllis: Drama’s and video clips used—especially the ones during the Names of God series. They appealed to all ages, were short but powerful. Visually seeing raised questions I had never asked myself before and brought tears to the eyes of many, including myself. Since reading this book, I have had my eyes opened and changed how I look at worship!
• Katie: In our church there is a heavy emphasis on Small Groups where more questions can be asked for clearer understanding. The pastor also invites people to come forward after the service with questions if they do not understand something.
• Sarah: We need to recognize that not all present know all the stories we refer to.

Has worship discussion in your churches (i.e.: worship wars) only been about the style (music)? If so, how can we turn those discussions into intergenerational theological discussions?

• Harold: To some it has a lot to do with contemporary songs. This past Sunday a visitor whom I barely knew—though I know his parents well—had an issue with everything in the morning service! He didn’t ask me what I thought—so I just let him talk. All his discussion arose from tradition rather than conviction.
• Twyla: I had a conversation with a visitor from a “mega” church. She was lonely for to her what was the familiar. For her worship was about the size of the church and what it could offer because of it’s size, rather than about God showing up. To turn the conversation into a theological discussion I have to not become defensive. I right away want to “fight”. I want to respond with my own thinking. For me, I have to watch that I don’t become defensive.
• David: We need a conversation that clearly defines the difference between worship for self or to God! I never gave much thought to it until I took a theology class and saw a different approach to God. Now I try to do that with the Youth Group. When the Youth Group went to the ‘Creation’ experience at The Gorge, it showed them that there can be different ways to approach God.
Terms of preference based on tradition or authentic worship need to be defined. I was not aware myself as I was growing up that there was a difference in the ‘parts’ of a worship service. I needed to learn the theology of worship myself.
• Sarah: Being on staff at a church changed my perspective. Now being “behind the scenes” helps me see the work that goes into creating genuine worship. We need to be educated on all the components of worship.
• Katie: We need to be educated that worship is not a personal issue, but that we are all here for the same purpose of true worship of God.
• Phyllis: If prior to singing a newer song a testimony about how that song met the need for placement in the service, it would help me understand and would change my attitude towards new songs.

What are ways that churches can provide more opportunities for the voices of all generations to be heard when strategizing ways to do ministry? (see pages 61-63 “vital living systems must learn to be ‘steady in purpose but flexible in strategy’”)

• Katie: There needs to be a change of focus. There needs to be a breaking of tradition of the preferred ways.
• Sarah: There needs to be a movement. Our prayer team has tried. The leadership of the church needs to be on board. The church and leadership needs to have a set and shared vision. A young boy was asked to come forward and pray for the pastor before he began to preach (a regular occurrence to have someone come forward to pray for the pastor at this point in the service). He said he didn’t need to be ‘coached’ on what to say. It didn’t matter that his prayer had nothing to do with praying for the pastor as he preached—what mattered is that the young boy was asked, and wanted to, participate.
• Katie: Being involved at a younger age gives them more confidence.
• Harold: As we get older we are more involved.
• Sarah: Sometimes does the older generation feel like “I’ve served my time”? It was such a blessing for me to see multiple generations of my family involved in Vacation Bible School.

How did it happen that many Christian worshippers go to church Sunday after Sunday without hearing a present (currant) witness to God at work from those those who are gathered—not as a sermon illustration only? (from page 103)

• Twyla: A lot depends on the pastor. A controlling pastor determines exactly what will happen and be said in a service. Other pastors allow flexibility. Preparation is huge—it takes a lot of time to plan such things into a service.
• David: The Salvation Army—where I served for a time—intentionally does Prayer and Share. It became an issue to some as it went on at length and about everything. But the Leadership decided to keep doing it as it gave everyone a forum and trained the congregation to be watchful for God at work in their everyday lives.
• Lou: It gives someone an opportunity who wants to share.
• Sarah: Many think it interrupts the flow!
• Twyla: In our evening service a mic gets passed and people may share “what God has done” or a prayer request.
• Phyllis: It is huge to get to the point where people recognize it WAS God working and not just a coincidence.
• Sarah: Timing is a problem—“You only have x amount of time”!
• Mary: In Coffee Break I saw and heard how easy it was for a new believer to tell ‘current’ stories of God at work. It was so matter of fact for them!
• Twyla: (refers to page 110 and the need for trust-building) Do we really trust each other in our congregations to understand our story?
• Phyllis: Smaller groups create more trust.
• Sarah: A great way for people to share God at work in their lives would be to ask people what they have written in the margins of their Bibles and why they wrote it!

How would you advise a preacher to preach so that the message would be accessible and understandable to all ages? (read first paragraph on page 113)

• Lou: Page 115 where Tim Brown teaches how to preach—not expound but share what he has learned. I like to take notes and learn new things. Sometimes it is hard to catch what a past
or is teaching/saying with children crying in the back.
• David: From the perspective of developing sermons it is hard to inform/persuade and delight. The number one focus has to be on the text. I want to inform you of a new thing to help you in your understanding, trust, and faith in God, or clarify His way for you to live.
• Sarah: A pastor and planners need to keep asking, “Who is my audience?”
• Katie: Message needs to be intentional—stories need to be age appropriate. Stories I learned in my childhood mean so much more to me now because of my life experiences which make the stories so much more real. Having been pregnant at Christmastime helped me to really identify with Mary riding the donkey to Bethlehem!
• Sarah: In our church, all ages in Sunday school are now studying the same stories from their particular age perspectives.

Tags: bgsunnyside, Book Groups 2009, intergenerational